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Curves and Template Curves Question  (Read 6959 times)

kkoltunf

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Friends,

I just recently purchased Roastmaster, and I find myself a bit perplexed about how best to use curves and template curves within a Profile.  I apologize for this newbie question, but let me tell you what I want to do:

I have a Gene Cafe roaster, and I want to create a profile that mimics what I do: I preheat the beans for 5 minutes at 300 degrees, then crank it up to 482 degrees until first crack, and then about a minute into FC I lower the temperature 22 degrees (to 460) so that I increase the time between the end of FC and the beginning of SC.

My understanding is that a profile is just a placeholder for adding curves (that is, the curves make up the profile).  Is that correct?  If so, how should I best put my roasting practice in a profile that I can call up during a roast as a kind of guide?  Should I create a curve or a template curve?   Should I just roast some beans and then copy the curve created within that roast?  Finally, how do I record when I raise and lower temperatures at particular moments in the roast (something that would tell me: now, at 5 minutes, raise to 482; now, after 1 minute of FC, lower to 460)?  If someone could help me understand this and tell me exactly how to create the curve I desire, I would much appreciate the advice.

thanks,

Ken

Danny Hall

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Hi Ken

In a profile, "Curves" hold the control and reading curves you want to use as a guide for a roast - i.e. existing curves you want to match in the future. These appear in a roast when you use that profile, but still belong to the profile itself, so they are shared among many roasts. "Curve Templates" hold placeholder curves that will be created as blank curves in a roast whenever you use that profile for the purpose of recording new temperature measurements. The new curves spawned by Curve Templates belong only to the roast in which they are created. Based on your post, I don't think you'd need to use Curve Templates - they are meant primarily for folks who roast by bean mass temp readings - so that the setup of a roast is automatic, and they're not stuck defining new curves over and over again for each roast to record temp readings to.

At the moment, curves operate strictly on a linear fashion - nodes hold a value at a specific point in time. This is the perfect scenario for folks who roast by bean mass temperature with Reading curves - they provide an exact way to replicate a roast and are weight independent. Folks who don't have a way to measure internal temps, though, must rely on Control curves, which offer a lot, but are dependent on the roasted weight being the same.

Snapshops (more on these in a moment) was my first step at easing the burden on folks who use Control curves to account for this. A couple of updates ago, though, I wanted to take it further and laid the internal framework for Control curve nodes to be conditional for common events like first or second crack (similar to what you're asking) - to remove the weight-dependency. Not many folks were asking for that then, though, so I put it on the back burner to address the most popular requests. In the past month, though, lots of folks have been asking for something similar, so I'm looking forward to getting back to that. In the mean time, though, you're limited to concrete points of time from the start to stop of a roast.

Here' my suggested workflow

For your roasting, create a new profile, then within that profile create a new "Control" curve. Set the max level to whatever is appropriate - 500 sounds right. Create one node at 00:00 at 482° in the curve details screen.

In new roasts, choose your profile and the Control curve will display in the graph as a straight line - showing you how and at what level to start. When you reach first crack (or anytime you want to alter the temp), select the curve in the graph and enter a new node by tapping on the digital readout. Roastmaster will create a Snapshot of that curve, and your new node will be displayed in the graph. Since you'll now be using a Snapshot of that profile, the original master will remain intact with 1 node, and the Snapshot will correctly have the two nodes - showing exactly what occured in the current roast.

Master profiles always have references to the snapshots that were created of itself, so you'll have a good way to browse and rate them later from the profile screen and see patterns that emerge. Also, as you collect roasting data, you'll be able to browse roasts in the full screen analyzer, and swipe among many roasts to compare and contrast the profile snapshots, and see the curves and a graph of cupping data for each.

Hope this helps - if you still have questions, just let me know!

Kind regards
Danny

kkoltunf

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Danny,

Many thanks for that very helpful explanation.  One further question: can I have two curves going for a single roast, and add nodes to one and not the other, and then switch to add nodes to the other but not the one?  I ask because I could do that control curve as you suggest, but I might also want another curve that actually plots the temp every minute or so of the roast.  Would it make sense to have two curves like that at all, or just one curve with all those nodes?

Many, many thanks,

Ken

Danny Hall

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Definitely use as many curves as you need - each according to its task.

With my Quest, I usually roast with 4 curves. Actually, I have a roast going right now (screenshots attached) with...

2 Control Curves:
  • Fan - max level of 10
  • Amps - max level of 10
2 Reading Curves:
  • Bean Mass Temp
  • Drum Temp
You can enter all of the node data during a roast right in the roasting console. Tapping the graph selects each curve in succession. After you've reach the last curve, no curves is selected to allow a clear view for comparison with past roast data. Tap again to select the first curve again, and so on.

So, to enter data, just select the target curve, then tap the LED readout to enter a time-stamped node.

It might be best to define each curve in every roast for a few roasts until you get the hang of it, then move on to working with profiles. Profiles offer workflow speed advantages, and the ability to logically define different roasting styles. Also the advantage of snapshots and curve templates like we discussed, but for now you can take it slow if you like.

Best advice for working with profiles when you do, is to store existing curves you want to match (either control or reading) in the regular curve section, then new curves you want to use to capture data to (usually Reading curves) in the Curve Templates. That way, the roast is preconfigured without any effort whenever you choose that profile.

Cheers
Danny
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 11:51:09 PM by Danny Hall »

kkoltunf

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Danny,

Ah, it is beginning to make sense to me now.  This sounds like fun!

Enjoy the roast.

Ken